Sunday Salon: is this the end for Petrona?

As a member of the Sunday Salon since it was first created by Debra Hamel and Clare Dudman about 4 months ago, and having written articles on other book blogs at that time to spread the word, I have been experiencing the group's evolution with interest. There are now more than 130 participating blogs. I feel that for me the time has come to take stock and question what I am gaining from, and giving to, the Salon.
As invented and presented by Debra, the Sunday Salon is an "informal, weekly, mini read-a-thon, an excuse to put aside one's earthly responsibilities and fall into a good book". And for the first few Sundays, this is what it was -- maybe half a dozen bloggers writing about and exchanging views, on a Sunday, of their reading -- sometimes about different books, sometimes about the same book if reading experiences either coincided or were stimulated by Salon posts.
I subscribe to the Sunday Salon in my RSS reader. I've therefore become aware that more and more posts are being tagged Sunday Salon but being written on other days of the week. These, and Sunday posts, are often not about book-reading, but about why the blogger was too busy or ill to read that week, or about other matters related to books but not about actually reading them. Given the increased membership of the group, and hence the greater number of posts to read, I begin to question how interesting I am finding all of this and therefore whether I want to be spending my time reading or scanning these posts, compared with reading about reading, which is what I like doing most in the blogosphere.
Of course, it is up to people to decide for themselves what to blog about. But time is very short, and I am thinking quite seriously of unsubscribing from Sunday Salon and instead subscribing on an individual basis to the half-dozen or so blogs that I've discovered through Sunday Salon to be very much to my taste (and keep my subscription to the blogs I already followed before they joined Sunday Salon - and which, as a result, I now read twice!). Then my Sunday (and other day) blog reading would return to the ruthless pre-Salon approach of frequent unsubcribes via RSS when the 'time taken--value obtained' equation tips too far in favour of the former. 
I would be interested in the thoughts and experiences of any Salonists (or anyone else familiar with the Salon) reading this post.

• Do you spend a dedicated amount of time on a Sunday writing a special post about the week's or day's reading?
• Do you regard the Salon as a discussion, i.e. do you read and comment on all the other Salon bloggers who post on Sunday (and on the days since last Sunday)?
• Do you write a post for Sunday Salon that you would have written that day anyway, and are in the group mainly to reach the particular audience, without much interest in the discussion aspects?  

Salonists' views on these questions, and any other views they may have about how Salon membership is different from following individual blogs of mutual interest, will help me to make up my mind one way or the other. Thank you!

Comments

[Julie]

I joined the Sunday Salon a couple of months ago and overall I have enjoyed it. During the week I think about what I'm going to write, and it helps remind me to make time for reading (not something I ever used to have a problem with, but these days...). I do set aside time on Saturday to write my post for the next day. And I like the idea that we write about whatever we're reading, not necessarily a finished review.

There's no way I could ever comment on everyone's post, nor would I want to. But I do enjoy skimming through my RSS feed for posts that pique my interest.

And I am VERY interested in the discussion aspect. I wish there was more of it. I try to generate discussion on my own blog by writing about experiences of reading that we can all identify with, whether or not we've read a specific book. However, this is not specific to my Sunday Salon posts.

I hope this helps. I'm subscribing to the comments because I'm very curious what others will say. Which reminds me: speaking of discussion, why don't more people subscribe to the comments?????

[Mrs S]

Maxine you make an excellent point - I signed up to Sunday Salon so I could talk about reading - but I fear today I may have broken that rule by writing about some challenges I am about to undertake - rather than discussing the book I am reading.

I do make an effort to comment on the blogs I read as part of TSS - and enjoy those that start a discussion.

I like subscribing to the RSS as I have discovered some new blogs that I have subscribed to separately.

I see your point about subbing only to those blogs who take part in TSS in the way it was originally intended - perhaps that is the only way to keep the numbers manageable in our readers - but then I'd worry about missing some great newbies. For the time being I'll stick to scanning and reading the ones that catch my eye.

[Athena]

I do spend time writing a Sunday blog post about my Sunday or weekly reading. I have also tried to find topics of discussion, but that is not always easy. I do read all the Salonists blog entries for Sunday. I can not comment on all of them, and sometimes, there really is not much to contribute. Actually, having joined Sunday Salon, I like setting aside the time to read and post about reading. While I do blog about books the other days of the week, I rather Sunday Salon be a day wherein I muse more about reading and books rather than reviewing books. I do agree that some Salonists are posting out of the timeframe, and I don't read those as much. I also admit to being one of the salonists who have been unable to read on a few Sundays due to school and life, but I love visiting many of the blogs on a weekly basis. Good luck on the discussion and your decision.

[J. Kaye]

Wow...

I feel really bad since I am the guilty party or one of the guilties. All I can say is I'll try and do better.

Sorry...

[Wendy]

Hi Maxine,

I very much enjoy the Sunday Salon because it makes me think about what I am reading in a different way than just posting reviews. I find myself thinking about what I am going to write and bookmarking interesting things related to reading and books during the week. I like to choose topics related to what I'm reading which might generate some discussion...and if a Saloner comments on a post (perhaps suggesting reading a certain book or essay), I like to incorporate that into my post the next week. For example, last week I read two essays recommended by a reader and talked about them.

My posts for Sunday Salon are geared toward the purpose of the group - they are not posts I would have normally written.

I always read all the Sunday Salon posts in my RSS feeder, but I only comment on those that interest me or stimulate me to discuss...I think to expect readers to comment on and discuss on 140 blogs on a Sunday would be a bit much (after all, we're also supposed to be reading!).

I understand the point you are making - but it doesn't bother me if a poster gets off track. I like the variety of what people are posting; and I've found some great blogs through this forum.

I hope you'll stay on - I very much enjoy reading your Sunday posts!

[Literary Feline]

I am guilty of several of the things you are speaking out against. I personally enjoy the variety, but I suppose it has gotten away from its true purpose. Part of that for me is because I have not been reading as much lately and so my thoughts automatically go to other bookish topics that relate to reading, and of which I thought others might be interested in reading about and discussing--things I don't normally post about during the rest of the week.

I usually do end up writing something on Sunday for the Sunday Salon. Sometimes I write something the day before, depending on time constraints.

I do not comment on every Salon post I read. I tried that in the beginning but found that I wasn't able to read at all during the day because I was so busy trying to join in on every discussion. I now read those Salon posts that interest me and skim the ones that do not.

I very much enjoy the discussion aspect of the Sunday Salon, especially reading others' comments. Sometimes I can't think of what to say even though I find a post particularly interesting. It's just the way it goes, I suppose.

I am sorry you've been unhappy with the way the Sunday Salon has gone recently. I wish you luck in your decision of whether to stay or go.

[BooksPlease]

I only joined the Salon a few weeks ago, mainly because I like the concept of people sitting together and discussing what they are reading. I write my post specifically for the Salon on a Sunday about the books I have been reading during the week.

I would welcome more discussion but I suppose given that there are so many subscribers and we're all reading different books it is very difficult to achieve this.

I have only read a few Salon posts on a Sunday and read others later in the week. I try to comment on those I have read.

[beastmomma]

I agree with what Wendy wrote. I write a special post about the Sunday Salon. However, I am also guilty of the other things you mentioned: posting on a different day and not having time to read much. In spite of that, I really enjoy the Sunday Salon. I try to visit and comment on as many of the other blogs as I can because I like having dialogue on books. Good luck with your decision.

[Susan Balée]

I love the honesty of your posts, Maxine. I've paid attention to Sunday Salon insofar as it appears in Petrona, 'cause I do drop into Petrona every few days to see what you are thinking and linking about. But I am always amazed at the amount of energy and time you and others devote to keepin' up the blogs. I would fear to ever start one because I know I don't have the energy to give it. From my humble perspective as a reader and sometime commenter, blogging seems to be as much a responsible as a rewarding occupation. Lately, with all the responsibilities I already have -- kids, husband, house, pets, part-time job, freelancing, etc. -- I couldn't imagine adding another.

More power to you blogsters. I get the joy of reading your posts and the topics you raise, but don't feel any responsibility to write something myself (unless I feel like it, as I do now).

PS: Finished "The Minotaur" a few days ago and it's my favorite Barbara Vine novel yet. At last, an ending that was (almost) as good as the rest of the novel! I'm so glad to have discovered this writer, albeit so late in life, and it's thanks to your blogs about crime fiction, Maxine.

[Debra Hamel]

I'm finding this discussion very interesting. I'm not sure I have anything to add. I myself am not bothered if people go off-track in their blog posts, but the point is taken. It's true that the Salon has not quite worked out as I had intended: that is, I had meant it to give me an excuse to have a mini-readathon every week, and I'm not doing that, as it turns out. Not the Salon's fault, but because I've just been so busy and unable to devote the time to it.

The Salon became wildly more popular than Clare or I could have imagined. This is gratifying, but it also presents the problem mentioned above: there's just no time to read all of the other posts, let alone comment on them if you care to. I don't know if there's a solution to this. I feel a little guilty about it, but there's only so much one can do.

Are there any changes that should be made to improve the Salon? Is it okay as is?

I'm glad Maxine brought all this up.

[Clare D]

Strange, I've been thinking along the same lines as you, recently, Maxine...in fact, just as Debra says was thinking how it had become something quite different from my idea of a salon. It is as if the village has turned into a city, which is good in some ways, and I have 'met' several interesting people as a consequence, but I'm feeling more and more like a face in a crowd and think that maybe now is a good time for me to concentrate on a selection of the suburbs I enjoy...

Thanks for bringing this up, Maxine. It's a good set of points. I suppose people can choose. They can be city-dwellers or, like me, they can be villagers, or, thanks to Debra they can dip into both.

[JLS Hall]

Wow, I didn't realize we were getting so controversial. I haven't been a member of the Salon very long, but I've really enjoyed the variety of the posts every week. It doesn't bother me if they're not all on the same topic or if they don't follow the same formula, so long as they are book- or reading-related. I've discovered some very interesting blogs and gotten a lot of tips about books I might want to sample. I do comment on the posts that I find especially interesting or inspirational, and I've received some great comments from other bloggers. I think the Salon has helped me feel that I'm part of a larger community of bloggers who care about books and reading and like to share their thoughts and passions.

Looking back, I must admit to being one of those who has definitely strayed from the original concept. I'm sorry if that has offended anyone. But realistically, if I just wanted to devote the entire day to reading books (a "mini read-a-thon"), I wouldn't be spending all this time reading other blogs and blogging myself.

[joeB]

Hello Maxine,
I too have been a member since the start, but I do not agree that you should leave! Remember you and I cannot control what everyone does nor did anyone sign a contract stating what they would or would not do on Sunday. I don't know about you but I am quite impressed with the growth of our Salon and yes I admit I do not have the time to read every blog or post, but I am proud to be a member. I do try to post only on Sunday for the Salon and yes I did join because of the common interest in books, but the nature of the internet is that it it wide open and I hope will always be! My appeal to you is DO NOT LEAVE! Thanks to everyone who is a member, and special thanks to Debra and Clare for all they do!
Best Regards,
joeB

[smallworld]

I must admit that I do find the number of TSS blogs daunting, but I have gotten to where I read a few at at time and then step away from the computer for awhile. I have added a great number of books to my TBR list each week because of TSS, and this is my favorite part. I don't mind reading about people who are sick, can't blog, etc. This humanizes the whole process for me. Each week I am struck by the diversity of the group. I love to step outside my own small world each week and into the world of a student in England or a writer in NYC or a professor in California.
SmallWorld

[ksmith]

Some good points Maxine. I read most of the posts to Sunday Salon on Monday but that is just the way things happen if you live in the antipodes. Conversely, I write my SS blog posting on Sunday morning here, which means in the northern hemisphere it appears on Saturday.

Yesterday I was thinking my post seems to have fallen into a bit of a pattern and become a bit a too long, because I've been summarising my week, and I think I'm going to stop doing that, but I'm not sure what it will leave me to write.

One thing thing that has surprised me is that I expected to meet more crime fiction readers here and that hasn't happened.

[Samantha]

I'm not bothered by people going off topic-it's bound to happen IMHO. That's life I guess. Since the group is so big I have been starting at one end of the alphabet or the other and going through as many letters as I have time for. Plus, if they actually do blog about TSS then I leave a comment. And I go through my blogroll too. I like to see what everyone is reading-I write down titles that I am interested in. Good luck on deciding what to do.

[Debra Hamel]

One thing I'm realizing today is the importance of titles. Granted that a title has to include "Sunday Salon" or "TSS," the rest of the title is what catches the eye and decides one for or against going further, given limited time.

[Susan]

I think a more 'laid-back' approach is needed. No one needs to feel driven to participate at all times. Write a Sunday Salon post when the spirit moves you; read as much or as little as you feel like reading. When it starts to feel like work, it's time to go get a chocolate bar. Don't quit though, Maxine! Just 'dabble' in the Salon.

[Terri]

Thanks, Maxine, for your thoughtful post.

I think the Sunday Salon has doubled since I signed up a couple of months ago (not saying I caused that!) - it is daunting to try to even skim all of the posts; I do have my favorites that I read every week and try to comment on these, though not necessarily engaging in discussion.

I do write a specific TSS post and usually do some special readings for that (I've been rotating short stories, essays, poetry and "wild card" each week).

Perhaps we need to split off into different groups? Those who are interested in a more formal salon can have a Super Sunday Salon and those who prefer a more relaxed group without the expectation to do indepth dialogue could continue as is?

Debra, no need to feel guilty - these things take on a life of their own!

[unfinishedperson]

A couple thoughts from a "newbie":

I just joined the Sunday Salon earlier this week when I saw a badge on one of the members' pages and probably will write my post that day. This week might be a little difficult because I'll be at my parents for Mother's Day, but most times I plan on posting that day.

Personally, I like the idea of some interaction with other bloggers and readers. I was in an online community for a while (Vox) that had groups but no one seemed to really participate in them. It's nice to see such an active and intelligent group of readers out here in the cyberworld somewhere, whether it be TypePad, WordPress or Blogger.

[Medbie]

Just recently having joined, I was rather surprised and disappointed at the amount of posts titled "Sunday Salon" that were not about reading or books specifically. I would personally prefer that Sunday Salon posts not be a combination of general post and Sunday Salon post. My personal opinion, of course, but it seems almost like cheating, or in some cases trying to get readership under false pretenses.

As for commenting on them all, I can't even skim through them all on Sunday, let alone comment on them all by the end of Sunday. Real life, and the large amount of members, makes it difficult to get through them all. But I should think we would all be glad of comments from readers who really READ and considered our posts regardless of when.

As Deb mentioned (I think it was Deb), the title--and first line, naturally--is every thing. If it isn't a book title AND doesn't start off right away about what was being read, I'm not going to read it. That's not what I joined the Sunday Salon to read. However, I'm a purist about everything, not just the Sunday Salon, so don't take it personal. =)

[King Rat]

I've given some strong thought to unsubscribing from the Sunday Salon.

1) I can't tell what most people are reading in the RSS reader. The Sunday Salon as a title just isn't helpful and if the excerpt doesn't say in the first 5 lines I won't know. One or two people actually have full feeds, which is nice. I kind of wish it were a requirement that everyone participating had full feeds, as then my click-throughs would only have to be for entries I want to comment on.

2) Most people aren't writing about reading. I don't want just bookish topics. I like "what i'm reading and what I think of it." (I violated this one once myself though. I decided I won't do this again.) Posts just giving excuses why someone isn't reading don't help me at all. Those posts remind me of people on diets who don't follow their diets at their weekly check-ins. I didn't join the group so I could be reminded to read and use it as a prod to get myself to read. Even if I did I don't think hearing a litany of excuses would help, nor would making excuses. I want to share the joy of reading, not the despair of not reading.

3) Most people when they do write about their reading don't say what they think about it. If I haven't read the book, I can't comment if the person doesn't include this part. If they do, I can compare it to something I've read, or further probe in a comment.

4) A few people writing about reading stuff I won't ever get a chance to read. Students' writing, for instance. ARCs I don't mind hearing about, since eventually those will come out.

I don't mind the non-Sunday posts so much. There seemed a bunch of them for a while, but further investigation made me think they were mostly older posts getting tagged as new by Yahoo Pipes somehow. If it were more widespread, I would be bothered though. As it is, right now I just ignore anything that shows up before Saturday evening and after early Monday morning.

[Harriet]

I agree about the posts that are not about books, and with your comments in general. I joined a couple of months ago and I have enjoyed it overall, but have been aware of the proliferation of new people and the consequent change of focus. When I contribute I do tend to write a different kind of post to my normal ones -- more wide-ranging, generally. I've enjoyed encountering new blogs, but I don't read everything, by any means. I do think people should try to stick to Sunday!

[Mrs S]

Well Petrona - I think you succeeded in prompting a long discussion here - which I thin was one of the things you said you wanted from the Salon. It's interesting to read everyone's views - and I wonder how this will impact on tomorrow's Salon.

So will you be sticking around? Please don't take this the wrong way but I thought since you started this discussion you might have participated in it...

[Mrs S]

I just re-read my comment in my feed reader and it sounds really blunt - which was not my intention honestly! I really am intrigued to see if we'll post differently tomorrow. Happy reading

[Maxine]

Thanks very much to everyone for their comments. And, Mrs S, you are right to say that I should have joined in. I did intend to, but it's been an even busier week than usual, including my having to spend a couple of days at a conference and catch up on the work that I missed as a result. I'll attempt to synthesise something for tomorrow (Sunday).
In the meatime, thanks so much to everyone for these very stimulating comments. I'm very grateful that so many Salon members took time to respond.

[Maxine]

To Joe B: I agree that people should write about what they want to write about; I have no interest in controlling anything - as I did make clear, I thought, in the post here on which you've commented.
What I am going to do, however, is stop subscribing to the Salon "en masse" if I find that most of the posts are not ones I'd read, as I only want to subscribe to blogs that have content of interest to me. The first few weeks of the Salon were of interest to me, but latterly it has begun to seem more impersonal and more to do with what is going on with various bloggers in other aspects of their blogging than a discussion of what they are reading now, and that isn't why I joined the Salon. (I'd prefer it if they didn't put those particular posts in the Salon RSS reader).
I have blogs that I follow for other reasons, but I follow the Salon for the reading. If, say, half the 130+ bloggers in the Salon are labelling posts as Sunday Salon but aren't writing about what they are reading, that's too much "other stuff" to be even scanning and deciding not to read, in my view, as I do that already with all my other (many!) Rss subscriptions.